Why we fall in love with singers, musicians, and rock stars and why that's perfectly normal, even for dudes (who pretend they haven't, but actually have)
Great column. First, you are right that men experience this too, and often channel it a little differently. But I want to offer another possibility for why we fall in love with artists or their music, and maybe this comes from growing up with classical music. I never did care whether an artist made me feel understood, or held a mirror up to my trauma (it sounds as though you and I could have a long discussion about parental weirdness!) For me, music meant the most when it opened the heavens up and let me connect with something greater than my own little world. It's ironic because I'm a confirmed atheist, but I understand why Händel, Brahms and Beethoven wrote the way they did. I sang in church choirs so I could feel that feeling.
I know that it is the fashionable thing today to say "audiences only respond to art if they see themselves in it". Even Bruce Springsteen said that, in his interview with Terry Gross. But I don't buy it. Sometimes that may be true, and for pop music it probably is true most of the time, but there are huge genres of art where it's hard to see that paradigm applying. I love "MacBeth" and Wagner's "Ring", but the day I begin to identify with those characters I should probably be locked up!
Charles, I couldn't agree with you more. My own belief is that music is one of the most fundamental channels for energy in the universe -- within and between species, including humans. The call of a whale or bird can move us as much as human-constructed music, and we can respond even more strongly sometimes to foreign music than music in our own language, or to instrumental music, or even just to drumming. I guess I'm just repeating what others have said, that it's one of the universal languages and we even come into this world wired to respond to it.
And I'm with you. I tend to seek out the music that inspires and transports me, not just the music that moves me or gets me to hum along or connects to 'me'. I do think of it as connecting with something greater, whether you believe that to be spiritual or elemental, and a way to go beyond ourselves into other dimensions of experience that we don't regularly access in our day to day lives. I do agree that great art does engage us in some profound way that allows us to transcend our ego and our own circumscribed lives and connect to something greater. I think great pop and rock can do that, at least for me.
My intention in this piece -- it's normal to fall in love with people who move us and inspire us, just don't expect to sleep with them to express your gratitude!
It can hit us at many levels. And you make an important point about foreign or instrumental music. And drumming---that predated language itself. Other species do it. So yes, music is pretty basic.
"Both Sides Now" is about as "pop" as it gets, but Judy Collins' version of it feels like a religious experience to me. I do hope you will make it to the Riff call on Aug 25. We could use your insight and perspective.
I’ve been a Todd fan since the 70’s. He’s an artist that makes me “work” for it. Loved AWATS and Something/Anything as “pop” music that wasn’t really radio friendly. So of course he pivots to Utopia! I’ve seen him live a dozen or more times over the years and the last decade in particular has been very interesting. The Global Tour with his band behind a screen and him up front with singer / dancers? White Knight with mostly deep cuts and few “hits”? I’m always along for the ride. I got to meet his wife as she was bringing a VIP group out from a sound check before a show. I had been jokingly referring to the whole VIP thing as Todd’s retirement fund. I heard her thank the VIP crowd and explaining that the whole video set up and the crew that came with it were funded by the VIP tickets. Yep, that made way more sense. I put him on the same level as Peter Gabriel. Artists who do what they want on their timetable. As long as he keeps making music I’ll keep buying tickets. If for no other reason then I’m curious where he’s going next.
That is so interesting, John. Thanks for sharing your experience with seeing him live.
You have to admire someone who keeps making music and is able to bring people along on his musical journey even when he/they don't know where it's going. It's like being an explorer into unexplored musical territories, which is quite cool. You're no doubt his ideal fan with your curiosity to see where he goes next.
Very well said Ellen. Of course, some singers and musicians are just hot...! (I know, a shallow response but we all think it sometimes!) Maybe I need to do more interviews...
There are a lot of hotties in the music world. You add the music they channel and it's hard not to want to be closer to them.
I've found that close proximity, even over zoom, can destroy fantasies. But doing interviews can be great fun. People tend to surprise, some far more reflective than you expect and some a disappointment. It's like a box of chocolates [cue Forrest Gump].
Ha! This photo reminds me of the astoundingly great movie School of Rock, especially the final concert where the dowdy school principal is being ogled by the musician named Spider…he with naked chest guitar gyrations. It’s all good.
I loved that movie and haven't seen it in a while, and don't remember that scene, so I must watch it again! Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.
Oh, it is one of my top music comedies I have to watch regularly. Plus, as a teacher type, I always wanted to do a Jack Black. His flow chart on history of rock, how he gets kids to Be In the Band . . Joan Cusak as the principal doing her fave Stevie Nicks over a beer. They had to get very special permission from Led Zeppelin to use one of their songs. The scene is towards the end when the kids arrive at the final Battle of the Bands. Spider on stage alone “flirting.” with the school principal.
I finally watched it again last night and now that I'm writing about rock music found it so much better than I remembered. The flow chart was great -- I want a copy! -- and how he cast the parts and educated the kids about the various rock bands was so good. And Spider flirting with the principal was absolutely priceless!
I'd forgotten it was directed by Richard Linklater and had such a good cast. I think I'm going to invest in the DVD. So thanks for reminding me of this!
I've watched it now and it was great fun, and I liked that it was accurate being written by lead singer Howard Kaylan. Thanks again for a great recommendation.
I did mention you today in my post about humor about protest songs as having recommended School of Rock. Hope you don't mind.
Great column. First, you are right that men experience this too, and often channel it a little differently. But I want to offer another possibility for why we fall in love with artists or their music, and maybe this comes from growing up with classical music. I never did care whether an artist made me feel understood, or held a mirror up to my trauma (it sounds as though you and I could have a long discussion about parental weirdness!) For me, music meant the most when it opened the heavens up and let me connect with something greater than my own little world. It's ironic because I'm a confirmed atheist, but I understand why Händel, Brahms and Beethoven wrote the way they did. I sang in church choirs so I could feel that feeling.
I know that it is the fashionable thing today to say "audiences only respond to art if they see themselves in it". Even Bruce Springsteen said that, in his interview with Terry Gross. But I don't buy it. Sometimes that may be true, and for pop music it probably is true most of the time, but there are huge genres of art where it's hard to see that paradigm applying. I love "MacBeth" and Wagner's "Ring", but the day I begin to identify with those characters I should probably be locked up!
Charles, I couldn't agree with you more. My own belief is that music is one of the most fundamental channels for energy in the universe -- within and between species, including humans. The call of a whale or bird can move us as much as human-constructed music, and we can respond even more strongly sometimes to foreign music than music in our own language, or to instrumental music, or even just to drumming. I guess I'm just repeating what others have said, that it's one of the universal languages and we even come into this world wired to respond to it.
And I'm with you. I tend to seek out the music that inspires and transports me, not just the music that moves me or gets me to hum along or connects to 'me'. I do think of it as connecting with something greater, whether you believe that to be spiritual or elemental, and a way to go beyond ourselves into other dimensions of experience that we don't regularly access in our day to day lives. I do agree that great art does engage us in some profound way that allows us to transcend our ego and our own circumscribed lives and connect to something greater. I think great pop and rock can do that, at least for me.
My intention in this piece -- it's normal to fall in love with people who move us and inspire us, just don't expect to sleep with them to express your gratitude!
It can hit us at many levels. And you make an important point about foreign or instrumental music. And drumming---that predated language itself. Other species do it. So yes, music is pretty basic.
"Both Sides Now" is about as "pop" as it gets, but Judy Collins' version of it feels like a religious experience to me. I do hope you will make it to the Riff call on Aug 25. We could use your insight and perspective.
I hear you on "Both Sides Now." Some of Joni Mitchell's and Joan Baez's stuff affects me that way as well.
I'll try to be there on the 25th. I could use your musical knowledge!
I’ve been a Todd fan since the 70’s. He’s an artist that makes me “work” for it. Loved AWATS and Something/Anything as “pop” music that wasn’t really radio friendly. So of course he pivots to Utopia! I’ve seen him live a dozen or more times over the years and the last decade in particular has been very interesting. The Global Tour with his band behind a screen and him up front with singer / dancers? White Knight with mostly deep cuts and few “hits”? I’m always along for the ride. I got to meet his wife as she was bringing a VIP group out from a sound check before a show. I had been jokingly referring to the whole VIP thing as Todd’s retirement fund. I heard her thank the VIP crowd and explaining that the whole video set up and the crew that came with it were funded by the VIP tickets. Yep, that made way more sense. I put him on the same level as Peter Gabriel. Artists who do what they want on their timetable. As long as he keeps making music I’ll keep buying tickets. If for no other reason then I’m curious where he’s going next.
That is so interesting, John. Thanks for sharing your experience with seeing him live.
You have to admire someone who keeps making music and is able to bring people along on his musical journey even when he/they don't know where it's going. It's like being an explorer into unexplored musical territories, which is quite cool. You're no doubt his ideal fan with your curiosity to see where he goes next.
Very well said Ellen. Of course, some singers and musicians are just hot...! (I know, a shallow response but we all think it sometimes!) Maybe I need to do more interviews...
There are a lot of hotties in the music world. You add the music they channel and it's hard not to want to be closer to them.
I've found that close proximity, even over zoom, can destroy fantasies. But doing interviews can be great fun. People tend to surprise, some far more reflective than you expect and some a disappointment. It's like a box of chocolates [cue Forrest Gump].
Ha! This photo reminds me of the astoundingly great movie School of Rock, especially the final concert where the dowdy school principal is being ogled by the musician named Spider…he with naked chest guitar gyrations. It’s all good.
I loved that movie and haven't seen it in a while, and don't remember that scene, so I must watch it again! Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.
Oh, it is one of my top music comedies I have to watch regularly. Plus, as a teacher type, I always wanted to do a Jack Black. His flow chart on history of rock, how he gets kids to Be In the Band . . Joan Cusak as the principal doing her fave Stevie Nicks over a beer. They had to get very special permission from Led Zeppelin to use one of their songs. The scene is towards the end when the kids arrive at the final Battle of the Bands. Spider on stage alone “flirting.” with the school principal.
I finally watched it again last night and now that I'm writing about rock music found it so much better than I remembered. The flow chart was great -- I want a copy! -- and how he cast the parts and educated the kids about the various rock bands was so good. And Spider flirting with the principal was absolutely priceless!
I'd forgotten it was directed by Richard Linklater and had such a good cast. I think I'm going to invest in the DVD. So thanks for reminding me of this!
So welcome. It is my favorite therapy comedy! And that their songs were so good.
Have you seen My Dinner with Jimi? Hope…
No, I haven't seen My Dinner with Jimi. Must watch that too, sounds really good being based on actual events. Thanks for that rec as well!
Oh, you’ll love it. Yes, straight from The Turtles real first tour of swinging London. What’s not to like?
I've watched it now and it was great fun, and I liked that it was accurate being written by lead singer Howard Kaylan. Thanks again for a great recommendation.
I did mention you today in my post about humor about protest songs as having recommended School of Rock. Hope you don't mind.
Yes to that flow chart! How can we find this extracted somewhere?
Looks like a lot of people have transcribed it, and some are even selling posters of it. Here's one I found easier to read -- https://www.tdpri.com/threads/the-history-of-rock-flowchart.981507/
Unbelievable…so many have already found it and studied…