Hey, thanks for this list, Mick! I'll include them in my honorable mention list (I've got a few of them already), but if you do a playlist let me know and I'll link to it.
One of these is also coming up in a post and getting the full works.
That's an interesting point. What's also interesting is that Stills came from a military family, Crosby from high society, Nash a working class Manchester lad (Salford) from what I can tell. Interesting group and interesting reaction to the event given their backgrounds.
Yes! And both parents came from society families, the Van Rensselaers and Van Cortlandts. We're talking founding fathers, old money, movers and shakers.
Wow! Powerful post Ellen. By some strange coincidence, when I started reading this I was listening to a playlist and a Devo song started playing! I had heard the connection they had to this horrific event but it's chilling to hear them as I learn more details.
No, me either, Nick. As you know, the more you dig into these songs, the more you uncover. The stories behind them are quite fascinating.
Btw, David Drayer of Strange and Unusual Places saw Waltzing Mathilda in your list and is planning to do a post about it. Apparently it has a very interesting backstory.
I saw his comment on my post; which I appreciated but hadn't replied to, and just read the exchange in these comments which was very intriguing. Thanks.
I think it descended into humor, as things often do when you're dealing with difficult topics and need a pressure valve for all the feelings that arise. It was definitely a struggle with this piece.
Well Ellen, you struck a chord with this one. My hillbilly neighbor introduced us to everything Neil Young was involved in, from early years and I've followed his career and of course the bands he was in.
Performed much of his work (could play entire On the Beach album) but stopped when people started telling me I sounded like him. Neil Young deserves a Nobel prize.
Regarding the Vietnam war and Kent State affairs: this brings me very close to entering the morass of politics and long history of atrocities perpetrated by our government upon its own citizenry, some of which I've been part of, and now many of us are part of in the here and now.
But we won't go there.
Lastly, once again the Aussies come to mind anytime America goes to war, and Waltzing Matilda is sung again.
I found Neil's performance in that video so powerful. He's a great musical role model to have. It would be great if you put up more songs on your stack -- would love to hear more.
I did wonder, with your profession, if you've been put in some difficult positions. Having worked overseas quite a bit, I've since discovered that projects I was involved in were not what I thought they were, and people were not who they said they were. But let's not go there either.
I do have some recall, but also have been a researcher and writer my entire career, so finding the low-down and making it into a compelling story is my bread and butter. I've been very lucky in role models as well.
The customer was the U.S. Navy. Did work for NASA, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin. DOD. The men in black are real. They are "in the World" and we are "the unclean".
Once when getting furloughed I said to my manager "but I'm the only man alive who does that task".
His response: "well, Dave, it's like Winston Churchill said, "the graveyards of England are filled with indispensable men".
Wow! That is an incredible thing for a manager to say. Where is a tape recorder and an HR director (and a system) with integrity when you need them?!
I don't know about you, but I always showered more and smelled better than 'those' managers. Better personal hygiene, for sure. Just saying... kettle, pot...
Most of the "managers" were former Naval officers who do not readjust well to civilian life. It's more than a job, especially during wartime. Still have friends who can't tell their wives or children what they do or where they're going. We don't talk about work.
I have a female friend I would put into that category of wives.
I worked with a guy who would disappear for an extended period and dump his work in my lap, claimed to be special forces. He liked to brag about what he did but not where he did it, show me the wounds all over his torso. It didn't do the trick. I totally resented picking up his work. Then I found out he negotiated extra pay while doing less -- something hit the fan!!!
We're the dreaded "hardware people" who are outnumbered 100:1 by the cubicle people. When the hardware people show up things start moving around which irritates the cubicle people. We always bring a goon squad to enforce our requests, and we make more money than the engineers. They have good reason to hate and fear us.
One method was to put their equipment into a SCIF, where if it stored data, could never, ever come out again.
I didn't realize that myself, discovered it in the researching of the post. Not what you heard or knew at the time, which is why society remained so divided and Nixon won re-election by a landslide, but eventually the truth comes out when so many eyewitnesses are involved.
I don't know how well known Kent State is in America by people that weren't around when it happened, but I'm English and only learned about it a couple of months ago after listening to Fallin' Rain by Link Wray. I'm surprised not to have seen it discussed more online during the student protests about Gaza.
Sam Stone (John Prine) is a great song about the fallout from the ongoing trauma of serving in Vietnam.
Thanks for mentioning Sam Stone. I didn't know about it and will put it on my list of honorable mentions.
Good question concerning how many people know about it in the younger generations. I think not that many. The sixties generation are now grandparents and great-grandparents, and there are some participating in demonstrations and protests, but many who are old, tired, and find it enough coping with life -- or babysitting said children.
As good as the studio version of 'Ohio' is, the live version from 'Four Way Street' is even better - the repeats of "four dead in Ohio" at the end send shivers down my spine - an expression of raw rage.
Thanks for bringing that version to my attention. It does have a real sense of urgency and rage about it. They'd probably moved from shock, through grief and sadness, to anger and then rage by that point, and it came out in their music at that time. It is spine-tingling for me too.
I remember the Kent State massacre very well, and how upset everyone was about it. I was only 13 at the time but my parents were very politically aware (east coast liberals) so it was big news in my house, as were all the other protests and anti-war activities going on at the time.
I wore a black armband to school on Moratorium Day, and the right-wing shop teacher told me to take it off or not come to class. I chose to skip and got detention for it, and my mom hit the roof and threatened the school with ACLU involvement! (she was an awesome lady). We got apologies from the principal and the shop teacher, and the rest of my checkered high school career was handled with kid gloves by 'the authorities.'
Your excellent post really brought that tragedy back to me Ellen, I'm writing this with a bit of pit in my stomach - amazing how something that happened so long ago can still be so upsetting.
"Ohio" is a great piece of work - I was already a CSNY fan and remember hearing it on the radio. I never got the single but knew the live version on "4 Way Street" when it came out.
Wow, your mom was a force to contend with, and how wonderful that she went to bat for you over your right to express your political opinions. The whole situation is rather shocking, but also not really surprising. A friend and I once got in trouble in sixth grade simply for trading one of our socks so we were both wearing two ummatched socks -- something we did deliberately to see if they would make a big deal out of it, and they did!
Revisiting the Kent State tragedy affected me too, far more than I expected. So many young lives cut short, such a tragedy on so many levels. And the song captures it perfectly in both the music and lyrics, so recognizable and gripping and hair-raising. It really is a great piece of work.
What an incredible song and it speaks to Young’s abilities as a songwriter that he could knock that out in an hour. When I first heard this track 30+ years ago on Deja Vu I wanted to understand what it was about and learned about Kent State. Not sure I knew that two of the students that were killed were simply walking to class. The total number of casualties you quoted is staggering. Somehow I didn’t realize the scale. And the tragedy of the suicide death toll since the end of the war is simply horrific. Thanks for this powerful piece Ellen.
Thanks for reading, Mark. I suspect that writing the song while the event was immediate and in the midst of the magnificent and ancient Redwoods had to have played a role in why it's so powerful and affecting, as well as Neil's songwriting talent and experience. I'd love to interview him about that!
The numbers actually surprised me too. I should say that there is not consensus over the figures, which is why I give the ranges. The government tends to give lower figures, organizations involved in the issue tend to give higher. But the numbers either way are, as you say, staggering. I had no clue myself until doing the research. Heartbreaking.
Nice write up. That’s one of the OG protest songs of the modern era. I was in college at the time and my group of friends were hard hit by the news. The song was a stark reminder of the times. Young’s guitar and voice adds to the bleak sound.
Years later I was running security at a show he was doing with the Crazy Horse backup and got a chance to talk with him and that song came up. Neil is an interesting personality…not everyone’s cup of tea as it were.
Thanks, Daniel. I can imagine being in college that the war and draft in general, and Kent State in particular, were perceived as existential threats, especially if you were a young man.
Very cool that you got to talk with Neil. He seems quite engaging and also someone with strong views on things. Definitely an interesting personality, as you found. (What an interesting career you've had!)
I think this song was vivid in a lot of our minds with the draft going in this ridiculous war in Vietnam. Here is another example of America’s democracy stifling a peaceful demonstration with guns.
When I found most interesting, however, was that I did my graduate work at Ohio State and was astounded to discover that Ohio State and Columbus also had demonstration‘s and in fact to change the structure of university as they put in barriers to avoid students being able to drive into the heart of the campus. I remember thinking wow I thought this was a conservative place, and then thinking about Kent State.
Here I am again thinking about Ohio as a conservative place, or is it? Maybe what I’m not aware of is the silent majority that wasn’t so silent at Kent state.
Those are important questions, Greg, and these different examples really make you think about what was really going on here and why did this happen.
As you ask, was it the states that were conservative, or were they a reflection of the views of the mainstream culture across the country who continued to support Nixon and the war?
My brother protested at his college not far from New York City in the late 70s and got arrested, and I wouldn't call that area conservative.
But I know from working for years in academia that college administrators usually have a knee-jerk reaction to demonstrations and protests, which is to suppress them as quickly as possible and get the protestors to disperse or be arrested. I think they tend to see these activities as a challenge to their authority, but also a threat to their funding streams from corporations and governments. In other words, a headache they don't need. And I'm not sure they view students as adults who deserve a real seat at the table, with student reps on committees not really listened to in my experience.
If Ohio State changed the structure of the university back to what it had been, who was going to lose? Probably the administrators who advocated for those darn barriers and couldn't admit it even if they were a bad idea -- because then they'd have to admit that they were wrong! (Leaders hate to admit that!)
Thanks for the thoughts, Ellen . Yes, you’re probably right it doesn’t have any to do with political leanings. It’s just about the people in charge feeling anxious that they could lose their authority. Every time there’s a demonstration on the campus they clamp down. They want us to think or do they? it’s probably Wyatt civics isn’t taught that much in school anymore. Anyway, thank you for the response.
I keep thinking about all of the mass killings in schools since the Kent massacre. Our generation has utterly failed to do enough (of anything, really).
Imho, failure and responsibility lies across the generations, especially with what's going on in the schools. I think my generation should be doing more too, especially having more money and experience.
And also, unfortunately, change often takes a long time. It's not clear in this post, but the war started in the mid-50s and didn't end until the mid-70s, so 20 years of war in Vietnam that got expanded into Cambodia and Laos toward the end. The older generations didn't really do anything about it, it was the kids who made it unpopular.
But, that said, I'm not sure there would have been the student demonstrations if not for the draft and so many young American men being forced to go to Vietnam and being injured or killed, and many coming back with terrible tales of what they had experienced. Not to mention, the major news networks started to show what was being done to the Vietnamese villagers, including children, and that really woke people up to what was being done in our name.
We haven't seen the same thing happen around wars since then because there's been no draft, except recently with the situation in Gaza, and the students are again the ones protesting that.
People will often let things get pretty bad before they reach a tipping point and say it has to stop. And then they argue over how to stop or change it!
I tend to be optimistic because I've seen a lot of bad things over the years eventually get addressed, usually because an individual or group wouldn't let it go and kept pushing for change. There's always hope.
Do you know Ellen it’s not just the young people that are protesting what’s going on in Gaza. I think the media is coloring things, and of course the current administration is trying to avoid upsetting the Israelis, especially in this time of election, because a lot of money comes back through AIPAC to support all these different candidates. More than anything we need to get money out of our campaign process, which I know that got seriously damage with that decision made by the Supreme Court a while back.
I just don’t see how either Party can support Netanyahu. He’s just turned into a terrible war monger.
I wouldn’t really wanna live in Israel at this point because he’s got everybody in that area incredibly angry. Things will not calm down for a long time.
I appreciated your response . The other sad thing that happens in demonstration is these provocateurs. They are the ones that burn cars break windows do all that kind of crazy stuff and pull the nonviolent demonstrators into the administrative response. How do you stop that? Still I think it’s important to demonstrate. Thanks for your response and sorry for the delay.
Thanks for this comment, Greg. I think the value of writing about what happened in the 60s, from my perspective, is that there are some parallels between what happened then and what's happening now, and it helps to be able to view things from a distance. As George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
I tend not to say much around current events because it opens a can of worms (although I did do that mentioning the Gaza demonstrations above as context). Things are quite complex, as you're illuminating in your comment. I'm hoping people can derive some hope from the fact that the sixties were also very challenging with both the war and the fear of nuclear annihilation. It's crazy that so much of what happened then 'maps' onto now.
We may not have done anything but I know a lot of people are really upset about it. It’s funny this is all coming down to weapons of mass destruction and military weapons. It seems like our country values that over peace and safe community living.
I don’t get how people think they need to have semi automatic weapons, especially ones that basically blow holes in things.
I think there will be some changes once this elections over with and more democrats are in control. I wish the Republicans weren’t so fractured and so adamant for unfair things. I know part of this is because they connected with the religious right. And I should add which is not necessarily right.
Well, this is going to sound cynical, and it is what they really like is for us to send a 35 bucks to all their different candidates. Ignore the facts there right in front of us like for example what’s going on in Gaza and Lebanon and pay our taxes.
I am one of those constituents that is constantly calling my representatives on all levels to get them to do things. I consider myself an activist.
In our little county, in Northern California in Mendocino, we have stopped roadside spring county wide and it’s illegal to grow GMO crops on a big scale. We also tend avoid having smart meters on our houses.
Well done on the activism around GMO crops and smart meters. With you on that. (Not sure what you meant by roadside spring.)
But yes, I hope people realize that there are options for how to engage, and we may have to look at the past to see that we've dealt with similar things before and brought about positive change. There's always hope.
Fortunate Son - CCR
Some additional good ones ( I feel a new playlist in the works)
Imagine - John Lennon
What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
I'd Love to Change the Wold - Ten Years After
The Revolution Will Not be Televised - Gill Scott Haron
Street Fight Man - The Rolling Stones
Revolution - The Beatles
After the 70s
Spanish Bombs - The Clash
Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2
Monkey Gone to Heaven - The Pixies
Meat is Murder - The Smiths
Hey, thanks for this list, Mick! I'll include them in my honorable mention list (I've got a few of them already), but if you do a playlist let me know and I'll link to it.
One of these is also coming up in a post and getting the full works.
Here you go. I stopped at 50.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1maz72QuzCtRhRlDHd7uMl?si=E632KlM8TWqwZerwd0F3dQ
Wow, Mick, this is an excellent list! So many I didn't know, especially the later ones.
I've embedded it in my upcoming honorable mention post, if that's OK. I expect that will come out week after next.
Thanks for sharing it.
Couldn’t leave it alone. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1maz72QuzCtRhRlDHd7uMl?si=mPRls4B1TdSUW3lpDdKudQ
Good you told me, because I'm including a link to your list in the intro to the next post. This is a great list!
Trust a Canadian to write the definitive musical condemnation of a horrific American event.
That's an interesting point. What's also interesting is that Stills came from a military family, Crosby from high society, Nash a working class Manchester lad (Salford) from what I can tell. Interesting group and interesting reaction to the event given their backgrounds.
Crosby reputedly was the son of Floyd Crosby, a prolific Hollywood cinematographer.
Yes! And both parents came from society families, the Van Rensselaers and Van Cortlandts. We're talking founding fathers, old money, movers and shakers.
Wow! Powerful post Ellen. By some strange coincidence, when I started reading this I was listening to a playlist and a Devo song started playing! I had heard the connection they had to this horrific event but it's chilling to hear them as I learn more details.
Thanks, Dan, and that is a strange coincidence (or synchronicity!).
It was a hard post to write as it was horrific and I do remember it. Brought tears to my eyes quite a few times.
I appreciated the research, and I hadn't heard about the Devo connection before.
No, me either, Nick. As you know, the more you dig into these songs, the more you uncover. The stories behind them are quite fascinating.
Btw, David Drayer of Strange and Unusual Places saw Waltzing Mathilda in your list and is planning to do a post about it. Apparently it has a very interesting backstory.
I saw his comment on my post; which I appreciated but hadn't replied to, and just read the exchange in these comments which was very intriguing. Thanks.
I think it descended into humor, as things often do when you're dealing with difficult topics and need a pressure valve for all the feelings that arise. It was definitely a struggle with this piece.
Well Ellen, you struck a chord with this one. My hillbilly neighbor introduced us to everything Neil Young was involved in, from early years and I've followed his career and of course the bands he was in.
Performed much of his work (could play entire On the Beach album) but stopped when people started telling me I sounded like him. Neil Young deserves a Nobel prize.
Regarding the Vietnam war and Kent State affairs: this brings me very close to entering the morass of politics and long history of atrocities perpetrated by our government upon its own citizenry, some of which I've been part of, and now many of us are part of in the here and now.
But we won't go there.
Lastly, once again the Aussies come to mind anytime America goes to war, and Waltzing Matilda is sung again.
And you have a vast recall of the period.
I found Neil's performance in that video so powerful. He's a great musical role model to have. It would be great if you put up more songs on your stack -- would love to hear more.
I did wonder, with your profession, if you've been put in some difficult positions. Having worked overseas quite a bit, I've since discovered that projects I was involved in were not what I thought they were, and people were not who they said they were. But let's not go there either.
I do have some recall, but also have been a researcher and writer my entire career, so finding the low-down and making it into a compelling story is my bread and butter. I've been very lucky in role models as well.
The customer was the U.S. Navy. Did work for NASA, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin. DOD. The men in black are real. They are "in the World" and we are "the unclean".
Once when getting furloughed I said to my manager "but I'm the only man alive who does that task".
His response: "well, Dave, it's like Winston Churchill said, "the graveyards of England are filled with indispensable men".
Wow! That is an incredible thing for a manager to say. Where is a tape recorder and an HR director (and a system) with integrity when you need them?!
I don't know about you, but I always showered more and smelled better than 'those' managers. Better personal hygiene, for sure. Just saying... kettle, pot...
Most of the "managers" were former Naval officers who do not readjust well to civilian life. It's more than a job, especially during wartime. Still have friends who can't tell their wives or children what they do or where they're going. We don't talk about work.
I have a female friend I would put into that category of wives.
I worked with a guy who would disappear for an extended period and dump his work in my lap, claimed to be special forces. He liked to brag about what he did but not where he did it, show me the wounds all over his torso. It didn't do the trick. I totally resented picking up his work. Then I found out he negotiated extra pay while doing less -- something hit the fan!!!
We're the dreaded "hardware people" who are outnumbered 100:1 by the cubicle people. When the hardware people show up things start moving around which irritates the cubicle people. We always bring a goon squad to enforce our requests, and we make more money than the engineers. They have good reason to hate and fear us.
One method was to put their equipment into a SCIF, where if it stored data, could never, ever come out again.
Technicians get whatever they want.
Crazy times now, crazy times then. Shooting to kill students, even students walking to class? That's just awful.
I didn't realize that myself, discovered it in the researching of the post. Not what you heard or knew at the time, which is why society remained so divided and Nixon won re-election by a landslide, but eventually the truth comes out when so many eyewitnesses are involved.
Still so relevant and an excellent piece of music.
You said it, Al!
I don't know how well known Kent State is in America by people that weren't around when it happened, but I'm English and only learned about it a couple of months ago after listening to Fallin' Rain by Link Wray. I'm surprised not to have seen it discussed more online during the student protests about Gaza.
Sam Stone (John Prine) is a great song about the fallout from the ongoing trauma of serving in Vietnam.
Thanks for mentioning Sam Stone. I didn't know about it and will put it on my list of honorable mentions.
Good question concerning how many people know about it in the younger generations. I think not that many. The sixties generation are now grandparents and great-grandparents, and there are some participating in demonstrations and protests, but many who are old, tired, and find it enough coping with life -- or babysitting said children.
I did watch a reaction video with Bizmatic, who I quite enjoy, and he had no clue about the Kent State shootings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmXtFfrZgik
As good as the studio version of 'Ohio' is, the live version from 'Four Way Street' is even better - the repeats of "four dead in Ohio" at the end send shivers down my spine - an expression of raw rage.
Thanks for bringing that version to my attention. It does have a real sense of urgency and rage about it. They'd probably moved from shock, through grief and sadness, to anger and then rage by that point, and it came out in their music at that time. It is spine-tingling for me too.
I remember the Kent State massacre very well, and how upset everyone was about it. I was only 13 at the time but my parents were very politically aware (east coast liberals) so it was big news in my house, as were all the other protests and anti-war activities going on at the time.
I wore a black armband to school on Moratorium Day, and the right-wing shop teacher told me to take it off or not come to class. I chose to skip and got detention for it, and my mom hit the roof and threatened the school with ACLU involvement! (she was an awesome lady). We got apologies from the principal and the shop teacher, and the rest of my checkered high school career was handled with kid gloves by 'the authorities.'
Your excellent post really brought that tragedy back to me Ellen, I'm writing this with a bit of pit in my stomach - amazing how something that happened so long ago can still be so upsetting.
"Ohio" is a great piece of work - I was already a CSNY fan and remember hearing it on the radio. I never got the single but knew the live version on "4 Way Street" when it came out.
Wow, your mom was a force to contend with, and how wonderful that she went to bat for you over your right to express your political opinions. The whole situation is rather shocking, but also not really surprising. A friend and I once got in trouble in sixth grade simply for trading one of our socks so we were both wearing two ummatched socks -- something we did deliberately to see if they would make a big deal out of it, and they did!
Revisiting the Kent State tragedy affected me too, far more than I expected. So many young lives cut short, such a tragedy on so many levels. And the song captures it perfectly in both the music and lyrics, so recognizable and gripping and hair-raising. It really is a great piece of work.
What an incredible song and it speaks to Young’s abilities as a songwriter that he could knock that out in an hour. When I first heard this track 30+ years ago on Deja Vu I wanted to understand what it was about and learned about Kent State. Not sure I knew that two of the students that were killed were simply walking to class. The total number of casualties you quoted is staggering. Somehow I didn’t realize the scale. And the tragedy of the suicide death toll since the end of the war is simply horrific. Thanks for this powerful piece Ellen.
Thanks for reading, Mark. I suspect that writing the song while the event was immediate and in the midst of the magnificent and ancient Redwoods had to have played a role in why it's so powerful and affecting, as well as Neil's songwriting talent and experience. I'd love to interview him about that!
The numbers actually surprised me too. I should say that there is not consensus over the figures, which is why I give the ranges. The government tends to give lower figures, organizations involved in the issue tend to give higher. But the numbers either way are, as you say, staggering. I had no clue myself until doing the research. Heartbreaking.
Nice write up. That’s one of the OG protest songs of the modern era. I was in college at the time and my group of friends were hard hit by the news. The song was a stark reminder of the times. Young’s guitar and voice adds to the bleak sound.
Years later I was running security at a show he was doing with the Crazy Horse backup and got a chance to talk with him and that song came up. Neil is an interesting personality…not everyone’s cup of tea as it were.
Thanks, Daniel. I can imagine being in college that the war and draft in general, and Kent State in particular, were perceived as existential threats, especially if you were a young man.
Very cool that you got to talk with Neil. He seems quite engaging and also someone with strong views on things. Definitely an interesting personality, as you found. (What an interesting career you've had!)
I think this song was vivid in a lot of our minds with the draft going in this ridiculous war in Vietnam. Here is another example of America’s democracy stifling a peaceful demonstration with guns.
When I found most interesting, however, was that I did my graduate work at Ohio State and was astounded to discover that Ohio State and Columbus also had demonstration‘s and in fact to change the structure of university as they put in barriers to avoid students being able to drive into the heart of the campus. I remember thinking wow I thought this was a conservative place, and then thinking about Kent State.
Here I am again thinking about Ohio as a conservative place, or is it? Maybe what I’m not aware of is the silent majority that wasn’t so silent at Kent state.
Those are important questions, Greg, and these different examples really make you think about what was really going on here and why did this happen.
As you ask, was it the states that were conservative, or were they a reflection of the views of the mainstream culture across the country who continued to support Nixon and the war?
My brother protested at his college not far from New York City in the late 70s and got arrested, and I wouldn't call that area conservative.
But I know from working for years in academia that college administrators usually have a knee-jerk reaction to demonstrations and protests, which is to suppress them as quickly as possible and get the protestors to disperse or be arrested. I think they tend to see these activities as a challenge to their authority, but also a threat to their funding streams from corporations and governments. In other words, a headache they don't need. And I'm not sure they view students as adults who deserve a real seat at the table, with student reps on committees not really listened to in my experience.
If Ohio State changed the structure of the university back to what it had been, who was going to lose? Probably the administrators who advocated for those darn barriers and couldn't admit it even if they were a bad idea -- because then they'd have to admit that they were wrong! (Leaders hate to admit that!)
Thanks for the thoughts, Ellen . Yes, you’re probably right it doesn’t have any to do with political leanings. It’s just about the people in charge feeling anxious that they could lose their authority. Every time there’s a demonstration on the campus they clamp down. They want us to think or do they? it’s probably Wyatt civics isn’t taught that much in school anymore. Anyway, thank you for the response.
Excellent point. Do they want us to think or not?!
Thanks for reading, Greg.
I keep thinking about all of the mass killings in schools since the Kent massacre. Our generation has utterly failed to do enough (of anything, really).
Imho, failure and responsibility lies across the generations, especially with what's going on in the schools. I think my generation should be doing more too, especially having more money and experience.
And also, unfortunately, change often takes a long time. It's not clear in this post, but the war started in the mid-50s and didn't end until the mid-70s, so 20 years of war in Vietnam that got expanded into Cambodia and Laos toward the end. The older generations didn't really do anything about it, it was the kids who made it unpopular.
But, that said, I'm not sure there would have been the student demonstrations if not for the draft and so many young American men being forced to go to Vietnam and being injured or killed, and many coming back with terrible tales of what they had experienced. Not to mention, the major news networks started to show what was being done to the Vietnamese villagers, including children, and that really woke people up to what was being done in our name.
We haven't seen the same thing happen around wars since then because there's been no draft, except recently with the situation in Gaza, and the students are again the ones protesting that.
People will often let things get pretty bad before they reach a tipping point and say it has to stop. And then they argue over how to stop or change it!
I tend to be optimistic because I've seen a lot of bad things over the years eventually get addressed, usually because an individual or group wouldn't let it go and kept pushing for change. There's always hope.
Do you know Ellen it’s not just the young people that are protesting what’s going on in Gaza. I think the media is coloring things, and of course the current administration is trying to avoid upsetting the Israelis, especially in this time of election, because a lot of money comes back through AIPAC to support all these different candidates. More than anything we need to get money out of our campaign process, which I know that got seriously damage with that decision made by the Supreme Court a while back.
I just don’t see how either Party can support Netanyahu. He’s just turned into a terrible war monger.
I wouldn’t really wanna live in Israel at this point because he’s got everybody in that area incredibly angry. Things will not calm down for a long time.
I appreciated your response . The other sad thing that happens in demonstration is these provocateurs. They are the ones that burn cars break windows do all that kind of crazy stuff and pull the nonviolent demonstrators into the administrative response. How do you stop that? Still I think it’s important to demonstrate. Thanks for your response and sorry for the delay.
Thanks for this comment, Greg. I think the value of writing about what happened in the 60s, from my perspective, is that there are some parallels between what happened then and what's happening now, and it helps to be able to view things from a distance. As George Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”
I tend not to say much around current events because it opens a can of worms (although I did do that mentioning the Gaza demonstrations above as context). Things are quite complex, as you're illuminating in your comment. I'm hoping people can derive some hope from the fact that the sixties were also very challenging with both the war and the fear of nuclear annihilation. It's crazy that so much of what happened then 'maps' onto now.
We may not have done anything but I know a lot of people are really upset about it. It’s funny this is all coming down to weapons of mass destruction and military weapons. It seems like our country values that over peace and safe community living.
I don’t get how people think they need to have semi automatic weapons, especially ones that basically blow holes in things.
I think there will be some changes once this elections over with and more democrats are in control. I wish the Republicans weren’t so fractured and so adamant for unfair things. I know part of this is because they connected with the religious right. And I should add which is not necessarily right.
Thanks for your comment.
Well, this is going to sound cynical, and it is what they really like is for us to send a 35 bucks to all their different candidates. Ignore the facts there right in front of us like for example what’s going on in Gaza and Lebanon and pay our taxes.
I am one of those constituents that is constantly calling my representatives on all levels to get them to do things. I consider myself an activist.
In our little county, in Northern California in Mendocino, we have stopped roadside spring county wide and it’s illegal to grow GMO crops on a big scale. We also tend avoid having smart meters on our houses.
I appreciate your comments Ellen.
Well done on the activism around GMO crops and smart meters. With you on that. (Not sure what you meant by roadside spring.)
But yes, I hope people realize that there are options for how to engage, and we may have to look at the past to see that we've dealt with similar things before and brought about positive change. There's always hope.
Roadside spraying of herbicides
Thank you so much for the sad but oh so real memory.
Thanks for reading, Lola. Wish it were a fantasy...